Leadership & Fatherhood Through a GiANT Lens
내면의 리더| The One with Dr. Brandon Jennings | Episode 23 (2025)
“Competition can really drive people to achieve things they otherwise wouldn’t. In our culture, it’s often viewed negatively, but I like to spin it positively. I’m willing to take risks and make decisions that some colleagues might avoid. I don’t care about gender or race; this is a valuable skill that not only elevates your own performance but also pushes others to improve. Embracing competition means striving to make everyone around you better, not just wanting to win at others’ expense.” — Dr. Jennings (2025)
BLOG POST
We had an amazing time in June celebrating the stories of men and fathers and exploring who they are behind the titles and accolades. And to bring this powerful series to a close, I have the rare honor of hosting a very special guest who has personally and profoundly impacted my life. He rescued me from a toxic work environment and showed me what true leadership could look like (more on that later).
Dr. Brandon Jennings is a leader, educator, clinician, and coach who has spent over a decade enhancing health systems, mentoring future pharmacists, and equipping teams with the necessary tools to thrive. From serving as Executive Director of the Dr. Terry Sinclair Health Clinic to now leading transformational leadership training through Abilyn Consulting and GiANT Worldwide, Brandon brings heart and intentionality to every space he enters.
But today, we go beyond his impressive resume. Together, we explore the roots of his leadership philosophy, his evolution as a father, and how personal growth and professional development are deeply intertwined.
The Drive to Be Better: Where It All Began
In some ways, it’s nice to be predictable. If you’ve followed the podcast for a while, you already know what’s next: Who was Dr. Brandon Jennings before the degrees and accomplishments? He highlighted one thing: “I’ve always been a very competitive person.” Honestly, if you’ve ever heard him speak, you can feel that edge in his voice.
Growing up, Brandon didn’t fully realize how much that drive defined him. He just knew he had to keep pushing himself. He remembered a time when doing well wasn’t about personal pride; it was about avoiding trouble at home. His mom was an educator, and that came with high expectations. “I had to do a good job because I was gonna get in trouble if I did not,” he said.
But then something shifted. He reached a point where it wasn’t about what his mom thought anymore — he wanted to do better for himself. An inner motivation took over, and that’s when things really started to take off. Can you pinpoint that moment when your motivation shifted from external pressure to internal purpose? Let’s talk about it in the comments!
He emphasized how central competition is to who he is. It’s a core value, not just a personality trait. However, he also emphasizes the importance of managing and channeling that drive in a healthy manner. “It could be quite overbearing,” he admitted, if not kept in check. So for him, it’s about harnessing that competitiveness for growth rather than letting it spiral into something destructive.
He also shared that he grew up with one sister in Fredericksburg, Virginia, just about an hour south of D.C. Hearing Brandon reflects on his early values reminded me that ambition often starts in ordinary places — like report cards, family expectations, and personal turning points that quietly shape who we become.
Redefining Competition: A Tool for Growth, Not a Dirty Word
Let’s talk a bit more about competition. The word can feel off-limits, especially for women. In so many spaces, we’re taught that competition is something we should avoid — that it’s aggressive, not inclusive, even a little “dirty.” Since Brandon is familiar with competition as a tool for growth, I asked how people like me and others who’ve been conditioned to shy away from competition can lean into it in a way that actually serves us.
He started by affirming the power of competition to drive individuals beyond what they thought possible. “Competition can really help drive individuals to achieve things otherwise they would not be able to,” he said. And he acknowledged how our culture often paints competition in a negative light, especially when it comes to women.
But Brandon’s approach is all about reclaiming it. As he put it, “I like to spin it. Now I kind of have to because that’s me.” For him, competition isn’t about beating others down. It’s about being bold enough to take risks and make decisions that others might hesitate to make. And it’s not about gender, race, or any identity marker. It’s a valuable mindset that pushes not just yourself but those around you to be better.
What I appreciated most was how he addressed a common misperception. “People view that as arrogant,” he said. “People will view that as wanting, ‘I want them to lose…’ Further from the truth.” That distinction is so important. Embracing competition doesn’t mean wishing failure on others. It means showing up fully, being courageous enough to strive, and encouraging others to do the same.
Brandon has proved that competition, when reframed, can be empowering. It’s not about exclusion — it’s about growth. And we all deserve the freedom to tap into that.
Redefining Masculinity from the Inside Out
One of the things I’ve always admired about Brandon is his self-awareness. He’s someone who has clearly done the deep inner work. In today’s climate, where masculinity is under the microscope and scrutinized in every way, seeing a man comfortable in his identity is admirable. So what shaped his identity as a man, and what can we learn from it?
He admitted that it’s hard to put into words, but he traced a major turning point back to around 2014 or 2015. That was when he first encountered the ideas and tools that he now teaches to others. Before that, he said, “I don’t know that I was incredibly toxic, but it was not effective,” referring to how he was leading and operating in the world. Sometimes it’s not outright harm we’re causing, but an ineffectiveness rooted in unexamined habits or blind spots.
What changed for Brandon was his ability to recognize who he really was, become comfortable with that identity, and confront his own shortcomings — something he had previously avoided in the early part of his career. “I just shied away from those,” he said. But once he began to embrace those imperfections, it made a significant difference in how he presented himself. It was transformational.
He talked about how toxic masculinity, at its core, often stems from the desire to crush others in order to rise higher. “That’s honestly never been me,” he said, adding that he’s never really been a “guy’s guy.” He has always felt uncomfortable in hypermasculine environments. But what’s powerful is his recognition that even without trying, he was still putting people down — unintentionally, unconsciously. That distinction he made was so important: there’s a difference between being unaware of the harm you’re causing and actively trying to “stomp on” others to elevate yourself.
And when I brought up how this kind of toxic behavior often shows up most sharply toward women, he didn’t hesitate. “Absolutely,” he said. That level of acknowledgment, without defensiveness, is what made this part of our conversation so real.
Brandon’s journey reminds me that redefining masculinity doesn’t mean abandoning it. It means getting honest, embracing your flaws, and refusing to build yourself up by tearing others down. That’s how we get rid of the “toxic” traits related to masculinity.
Learning by Example: The Role of Influence, Delegation, and Empowerment
This part of the conversation pivoted to something so important because it affects how we show up and lead every day. It began with Brandon sharing about the father figures or role models who had shaped him. He started with his dad, a computer scientist with a sharp analytical mind. Brandon hasn’t officially typed him in the Five Voices framework, but he’s pretty sure he’s a Guardian. “Very much by the books,” he said. As someone who leans more toward the Pioneer voice, that naturally led to some clashes, especially during the high school and teenage years. But despite those tensions, he still considers his dad a brilliant man and a solid role model.
Then there was someone Brandon affectionately calls his uncle. He was a close family friend who owned and operated an auction business. Brandon began working for him at just 13 or 14. It was there that he not only learned the value of hard work but also began to understand the power of leadership. He noticed he was willing to go above and beyond for his uncle, but not for his uncle’s assistant. That sparked an early realization — it wasn’t about the task itself, it was about the person leading it. His uncle had the kind of leadership presence that made people want to step up.
And it wasn’t just about confidence. Brandon shared that what really influenced him was his uncle’s willingness to jump in and do the work, no matter how menial. “He hired me for grunt work to haul stuff and move stuff around, but in the moment, he would jump in and help as needed.” That hands-on humility made a lasting impression and continues to shape how Brandon leads today. Yes, he hires people to help, but he’s always willing to jump in and do whatever is necessary.
That led us to the larger conversation about delegation and team-building. For a long time, I struggled with delegation. Growing up in Nigeria as the firstborn daughter, I was conditioned to view responsibility as something that never gets passed off. Delegation felt like weakness. But working with Brandon helped shift that mindset. I even received a “good work on that delegation” comment from Brandon, which affirmed to me that I was actually improving. (Yay me!)
He explained that empowering others through delegation isn’t about offloading work you don’t want to do. It’s about trusting capable, competent people with responsibilities they can often do better than you. That shift not only lifts the burden off your shoulders but also strengthens the team. “You empower others when you appropriately delegate to them,” he said. “You gave them the resources necessary to succeed.” It creates a culture where people feel seen, trusted, and excited to contribute.
Brandon models this himself. He gave the example of his social media presence, something he admits he doesn’t really engage with. Instead, he has employees who take full ownership of their tasks. “I have no idea what they do,” he said, laughing. However, he trusts them because he hires people who are highly competent in areas where he knows he lacks expertise.
And that’s where self-awareness comes in. I agreed with him — knowing you can’t do it all and choosing to lean into someone else’s expertise is a form of wisdom.
Before we wrapped up that section of the conversation, I had to shout out his newsletters. I told him I love the music theater angle, and sure enough, it turns out the magic behind that content is his assistant Catherine, who also happens to be a professional actress and the music tutor for his oldest daughter. That little detail brought it all full circle: Brandon surrounds himself with capable, talented people and gives them the freedom to shine.
From the Classroom to Leadership
Can we tell where we’ll end up just by looking at the kind of students we were? For Brandon, it wasn’t obvious at the time, but looking back, the things he picked up in school play a big role in what he does now. It’s funny how the dots connect in hindsight. The habits, mindset, and even early exposure to healthcare — all quietly set the stage for where he is today.
His early interest in healthcare was sparked by his uncle, who had gone to pharmacy school before becoming a teacher and eventually starting an auction business. That uncle encouraged Brandon to look into pharmacy, and that nudge stuck. From a young age, he knew he enjoyed helping people — not just in the traditional sense of healthcare, but in a more profound way. “I love helping people reach their full potential,” he said. It’s what he loved then, and it’s still what fuels his work today, whether in healthcare or leadership development.
On the leadership side, Brandon’s path wasn’t as intentional — it kind of found him. He told me that he’s always been someone who took on leadership roles or, more often, was asked to step into them. In several organizations he’s part of, he just wanted to be a member, contribute quietly, and do the work. But time and time again, people asked him to chair a committee or lead a project. And even though it seemed accidental, there was something about the way he could see the structure and connect the dots that made others take notice.
“I think from a structural perspective I’m able to see how those things fit together,” he said. His creative side is evident in building frameworks, organizing people, and bringing disparate pieces together into a cohesive whole. As a younger person, he didn’t understand why leadership opportunities kept landing in his lap. But now, looking back, he has a clearer theory about what’s been there all along.
Sometimes the signs are there even when we don’t recognize them right away. The things we naturally enjoy, the roles we’re drawn into, the strengths others see in us before we see them ourselves — they all leave clues. And sometimes, just like Brandon, we find ourselves exactly where we’re meant to be, even if we never planned it that way.
No Wasted Steps: How Education Shapes the Journey, Not Just the Destination
If you’d recall, Mr. Chris Chime (another guest in this series) is someone who studied something completely different from what he does currently. He mentioned in his first episode that if he could go back, he would skip the whole process entirely. Since Brandon started in pharmacy but is now in leadership, I wondered if he thought the same. However, Brandon doesn’t think any of his education was wasted.
Even though he no longer uses his clinical pharmacy skills every day, he values the process of learning, not just the knowledge he acquired. He believes education gives you the ability to maneuver in the direction you want. You acquire skills like processing information, engaging with people, and building structure around problems. For him, the methods he used to help patients as a pharmacist are the same ones he uses today to help coach clients. The goal hasn’t changed. “I desperately want you to be the best version of you,” he said, whether he’s supporting someone managing diabetes or someone trying to lead a team more effectively.
That said, he did share something surprising: if he had to pick another path, he might have chosen to become a family physician instead. There are aspects of primary care that he still finds meaningful, and as a pharmacist, he sometimes feels limited in what he can do in that space. But even if he’d gone that route, he believes he’d have ended up in the exact same spot. “I likely would not still be practicing with the current climate of what family practice looks like,” he told me. His journey has made sense not because it was perfect, but because each step equipped him for the next.
And of course, there’s the personal side. “I met my wife in pharmacy school,” he said, smiling. It acknowledged that the relationships, the family, and the tiny threads that we find on the journey are sometimes the biggest reasons we’d never want to change a thing.
So yes, Brandon’s path shifted, but none of it was wasted. Every stage built something that’s still in use today. And honestly, that’s a powerful reminder that our journeys don’t have to look linear to be meaningful.
Following Amy: How One Mentor Shaped a Career and a Philosophy of Leadership
Brandon has done it all — academia, healthcare, and now leadership. It hasn’t been a conventional pathway. How did he get here? Well, his career journey was greatly impacted by one person: Amy Whitaker Rudenko, a dear mentor who, unfortunately, passed away.
He first met Amy while working as a pharmacy technician during his undergraduate studies. She came in one Saturday to pick up a shift, and that brief encounter changed everything. From that point on, he said, “All I ever wanted to be was Amy.” She was competent, compassionate, firm when needed, and incredibly relatable. Even a decade after her passing from breast cancer, Brandon still strives to lead the way she did.
Amy’s influence led him into academia, where he split his time between teaching and clinical practice. That balance kept him engaged and allowed him to constantly problem-solve — from daily staffing issues to figuring out how to serve underserved communities with no funding. Those experiences laid the groundwork for the leadership work he does today.
At one point, I joked that Amy must’ve been a Pioneer voice type. Brandon, true to form, started analyzing her likely personality blend — Connector, Nurturer, maybe some Creative. I had to laugh and remind him it was just a joke. But really, the way he still thinks about her shows just how deeply one person’s example can shape a life and career.
The Framework That Changed Everything: Why the Five Voices Stuck
Now, at this point, you must have heard me refer to the Five Voices multiple times — and if you are not already familiar, you might be wondering what they are. I promise they’re not the voices in your head, but something way more helpful. Here’s where we break it down. When I first encountered the Five Voices framework (Pioneer, Creative, Connector, Nurturer, and Guardian), I honestly didn’t expect it to have much impact. Personality tools can be a hit or miss, and I’ve seen my fair share. But when Brandon introduced me to the Five Voices, it just stuck. Not just because it was insightful, but because it was simple and actionable.
Brandon pointed out that it’s the simplicity that makes it so powerful. He explained how the Five Voices takes something as complex as the Myers-Briggs 16 types and narrows it down to just five. That simplicity makes it easy to remember and actually use. You only need to know your top two or three dominant voices, and the other two round it out. It’s not about labeling people, but about understanding how we present ourselves — and how others perceive us.
He shared how it changed everything for him, from how he leads teams to how he parents his kids. He’d found himself leaving people behind — not out of arrogance or carelessness, but because he didn’t even realize he was doing it. Once the Five Voices gave him language for his default tendencies, it became easier to lead with intention. Even now, he admits he doesn’t always get it right — he can spot what someone else needs to work on, share it with them, and then go and make the same mistake himself without realizing it.
I also asked why he chose GiANT, the platform behind Five Voices, out of the many leadership tools out there. For him, it came down to timing and resonance. He was struggling to lead effectively, and a colleague introduced him to the framework at just the right time. It made sense instantly. It wasn’t just theoretical, so it had staying power. It gave him tools that he could apply across his life — not just at work.
I totally get what he meant. Myers-Briggs always left me with unanswered questions: “Okay, I’m an INTJ or ENFP or whatever… now what?” GiANT filled in that gap. It helped me not only understand myself better but also figure out how to work with the people around me. It gave me language for things I didn’t know how to articulate before.
When Brandon joked about being an ISTJ and not knowing what to do with anyone who wasn’t, I laughed because it was such a perfect example of what the Five Voices help you grow beyond. It shows us not just who we are, but how to bridge the gap between ourselves and others. That’s what real leadership and connection require. And I’m so glad this tool made its way into my life — and this conversation.
Why Feelings Aren’t the F-Word
Brandon has done a lot of work helping men better understand themselves in leadership and life, and I was curious how he creates spaces where they can lead from wholeness instead of performance.
His answer? “Feelings are okay.”
This wasn’t always the case for him. Early in his career, Brandon saw feelings as something to push through in order to succeed. But that changed with the Five Voices framework, which helped him see how central emotions are — not just for him, but for others. He learned to ask not just, “What do you think about this?” but, “How do you feel about this?” Because sometimes, people haven’t processed their thoughts yet — but they know exactly how they feel.
A Pioneer is a voice known for being strategic and fast-moving, so this shift didn’t come naturally to him. But if he wanted to connect and lead well, emotions had to become part of his leadership. Feelings aren’t just valid — they’re powerful. It’s unfortunate that, culturally, men have been taught otherwise. But yes, he cried. Of course, he cried. He has two daughters. That part made me smile.
When I asked about common struggles men face in leadership and emotional intelligence, Brandon said there isn’t a huge gender gap across the five voice types, except for the Nurturer voice, which is less common among men. The bigger issue isn’t capability — it’s conditioning. “It’s not that my dad told me not to feel. It just never came up.” And that silence speaks volumes.
As a Pioneer, Brandon knows how his intensity can overshadow others. He described how he might talk over someone until they prove they have a better idea. But he’s learned to dial that back and create space — especially for quieter voices like Nurturers, who are often undervalued despite doing the most relational work.
Only 7% of people are Pioneers, yet they’re overrepresented in leadership. Loudness gets mistaken for leadership, and that’s a disservice to everyone.
This conversation was a needed reminder that emotional intelligence isn’t a “nice-to-have” — it’s essential. Especially for the men in our lives learning to lead with both strength and softness.
When the Lightbulb Turns On
One of my favorite moments from this conversation was when Brandon shared a breakthrough story from his coaching work with a healthcare professional. The client was a Nurturer-Connector (someone who thrives on emotional connection), but his supervisor was a strong Guardian, focused more on structure and results than relationships. For the client, that lack of connection made the work environment feel draining.
He came to Brandon for help, and after a few sessions, things became clear. It wasn’t that anyone was doing something wrong; they were simply a mismatch. Brandon helped him see that the emotional disconnect was keeping him from thriving, and once that was named, it became easier to make a decision. Rather than quitting out of frustration, the client chose to leave with clarity and on his own terms, ultimately moving into a role that better suited him.
What made the difference was reframing the decision. Instead of getting stuck in guilt or emotion, Brandon asked one simple question: “Is this the right fit?” That shift made space for empowerment and gave the client permission to move forward.
Start with Self
When I asked Brandon what advice he’d give to men who feel stuck or unsure of their place in the world, he didn’t hesitate: “Know yourself first.”
That starts with identifying your core voice, understanding your strengths, and getting honest about your tendencies. Self-awareness won’t make you perfect, but it helps you make conscious choices. As Brandon put it, “The majority of the time I still screw it up, but I’m at least aware of it.”
That awareness is the key. If you’re stuck on autopilot, doing what you’ve always done, nothing changes. Growth begins when you start looking inward because that’s the one thing you can control. You may not be able to change your boss or your circumstances, but you can take ownership of how you respond. And if others change too? That’s a bonus. But the real work starts with you.
Voices Are the Equalizer
Brandon works with people from different backgrounds. He’s able to do this because, as he put it, “Voices are the great equalizer.” Regardless of your culture or context, once he understands your voice type, he can begin to see how you interact with the world.
He takes time to understand each client’s background and voice, using that as a foundation for trust. When he says something that resonates, people feel seen — and that’s where transformation begins. His creative side helps him not only identify problems but also build clear paths forward.
He’s also honest about his own tendencies. As someone who values competency, he often wants to prove his worth — even when no one’s asking. But it comes from a place of care. When he says, “I don’t care where you’re from,” what he really means is, “Come as you are.” He absolutely cares. I’ve experienced how he honors cultural nuance, listens deeply, and adjusts when needed.
Brandon knows he’ll never fully understand what it’s like to walk in someone else’s shoes. But he’s committed to not assuming one size fits all. Whether it’s rephrasing advice or seeking input from others, he leads with humility.
A Tribute to Brandon
I’ll never forget how I met Brandon. Shout out to Dr. Jamie Wagner, my mentor through AACP, who introduced us. Jamie had been guiding me through some tough moments at work, and when I opened up about what I was dealing with, she said, “I think you’ll benefit from some leadership coaching with Brandon.” I wasn’t quite sold at first — coaching can sound a little abstract — but because I trusted Jamie, I took her advice. That’s how I ended up in Brandon’s leadership boot camp.
The group Zoom sessions were eye-opening. Everyone’s name included their dominant voices, which helped me understand where each person was coming from. At first, I was mostly listening and observing. But everything changed in June 2022.
That month, things came to a head at work. I showed up to a session in tears. The group became a support system at that time. Brandon followed up with a late-night call while I was in my hotel room in Connecticut. That was proof that even if he says he doesn’t care, he absolutely does.
That experience marked a turning point. Since then, the work I’ve done with Brandon has reshaped both my professional and personal life. It’s helped me become a more present leader and a better partner, parent, and person. You don’t just show up to work as an employee — you carry your whole self. This work helps align the whole self.
I’m grateful, and I strive to create the same space for others — one where they feel seen, heard, and free to grow.
Fatherhood and the Unexpected Gift of Humility
Of course, we couldn’t let Brandon go without a sneak peek into his life as a father. I asked Brandon what surprising lesson fatherhood had taught him. “Let’s just start with raising teenagers,” he said. And then he laughed — the kind of laugh that says, you have no idea.
The real challenge? Understanding what motivates his kids, especially when they’re so different from him. His oldest is his complete opposite, which makes connection difficult. He’s constantly trying to bring out the best in her, but to her, it just feels like he’s always telling her what to do. His youngest, on the other hand, is just like him. And that’s its own challenge. They butt heads because they both want to be right.
For Brandon, connection doesn’t always look the same as it does for others. He’s had to learn that what feels like a connection to him may not register the same way for his daughters — especially with teenagers, who are still figuring out how to interpret those dynamics. And some days, he admitted, it feels like he’s getting it all wrong. Like he’s ruining everything.
But then he said something that really stuck with me: “That humility is a piece I never knew was coming from parenthood.” And now, it shows up every single day.
Marriage, Parenting, and the Work That Shows Up at Home
Brandon shared how the work he does professionally also influences his personal life, especially at home. Like many people, he ended up with a partner who is his opposite. As a Pioneer voice, Brandon is strategic and forward-thinking. His wife, a Nurturer-Guardian, brings care and detail. “She’s a nurturer with the kids,” he said, “but a guardian with me.”
That difference means he’s had to learn how to approach conversations with her differently. For example, when planning a vacation, he might have the idea ready to go, anticipating her usual questions. But she’ll still ask something unexpected. “Then I slump back into my office to figure out the rest,” he laughed. Her questions frustrate him at times, but he admits, “The vacation will be better because of it.”
When I asked about his proudest moments, Brandon lit up talking about his daughters. His oldest recently played Middle Elsa in Frozen Jr., and he teared up several times watching her perform. What stood out to him was how she loves acting because she gets to be someone else — so different from him, who prefers being himself on stage. And yet, they both thrive in front of audiences, just in different ways.
As a husband, he’s proud of the supportive and equal relationship he shares with his wife. After almost 20 years of marriage, he holds deep respect for the women in his life. “Having two daughters, women’s rights are incredibly important to me.”
Leadership, Therapy, and the Work of Becoming
As we wrapped up our conversation, I asked Brandon for his advice on what fathers can do to lead effectively at home and in the workplace. His answer was simple but powerful: know yourself. And not just on a surface level, but deep enough that it reshapes how you show up for others.
For Brandon, that journey started over a decade ago with therapy. He openly shared how transformative it has been — not just in helping him process difficult situations, but also in providing him a safe space to understand his reactions. “As a man, generationally, that’s not something people value,” he said. “But I needed it, and it was super helpful.” It’s a tool he still uses today and a practice he encourages other men to explore as part of their self-leadership.
He also touched on the power of creating safe spaces where men can express themselves without fear. Every culture has stereotypes about masculinity — even down to whether a man can order a pink drink at a bar. “If you want a fruity drink, go get a fruity drink. Make it happen.” That kind of freedom starts with knowing yourself and being comfortable in your own skin.
Abilyn: Built with Heart
Finally, we talked about Abilyn Consulting — the leadership and coaching company he started in 2019. The name — Abilyn — is a blend of his daughters’ names, Abigail and Madelyn, which I found deeply meaningful. He and his team work with individuals and teams to help them grow and transform how they engage with others.
And I can personally vouch for their work. I’ve gone from group boot camps to one-on-one coaching, brought Brandon to speak at my university multiple times, and recommended him to friends and colleagues across industries.
It’s more than just leadership development. It’s heart work. It’s about knowing yourself, leading yourself, and only then — leading others, whether or not you have a formal title.
If any part of today’s conversation resonated with you, I encourage you to check out Abilyn Consulting or follow Brandon and his team on social media. You’ll find tools to help you better understand your voice and how to connect with the people in your life — at work, at home, and in your community.
To all the fathers and father figures listening: Happy Father’s Day. You matter more than you know.
And to everyone else, may you lead with humility, listen with presence, and live with intention.
Till next time, Mosiblings.
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